Abkhazia: Life, Challenges, and Future Aspirations

Hasan

Welcome to Civilizatio. Can you briefly introduce yourself for us?

Amra

Yes, my name is Amra. I have lived in Abkhazia my whole life, except for the past four years that I have been here in Türkiye, studying. Now that I am at university, I go back home every four or five months.

Göktuğ

Thank you. What is it like to grow up in Abkhazia? How would you describe everyday life there?

Amra

Well, everyday life is actually pretty ordinary — it is very mundane, and whatever I do here is the same thing there. When I come back home after uni, I am with my family. It is very peaceful, and people are very friendly. We go to our usual places like cafés and restaurants, I drive my brother to school sometimes. That is pretty much it.

Göktuğ

Thank you. And how would you describe your identity? Do you feel an identity conflict abroad, given the unrecognized status of Abkhazia? Is it frustrating to explain your situation?

Amra

Ever since I came to Türkiye, I always say where I am from, and most of the time people are confused — they ask, “Oh, where is that?” But when I explain it to them, they say, “Ah yes, okay, we got it.” And I think that is also a part of being in Türkiye: when I say where I am from, some people do know, and there is this very strong sense of connection. I think that comes from years of ethnic conflict — my ancestors were sent to Türkiye back in the 19th century; there were waves of Abkhazian people being sent here. So it is a bit frustrating to always have the need to explain where you are from. It is fine that people do not know — it is just a me thing, this feeling of “oh, I have to explain this again.” I am used to it, obviously.

Hasan

Okay. I want to talk a little bit about the war between Georgia and Abkhazia. Did your family experience anything during the war? Were any memories passed down to you about how they fought, or what happened?

Amra

Thankfully, my mom did not experience anything herself. She was taken to a town where there was no fighting, right in the middle of Abkhazia, and she went to school there for about a year. My father was not in the country. So I do not actually have a close family member who contributed to the victory, but I have other relatives who were actively fighting. And when you ask them about the war, all they talk about is the horrors that happened — and, obviously, the victims they saw.

Hasan

There are also many Georgians who say that there was an ethnic cleansing and that people were driven out of their homes. What do you think about this, and how does Abkhazian society see it? Are these things openly discussed?

Amra

Yes, these things are openly discussed — but the Georgian side does not recognize the fact that this was a war in the first place. And for me, as a person who grew up in Abkhazia, this was the ethnic cleansing of the Abkhazian people. I remember my mom telling me her stories from when she was a child: there were a lot of other ethnicities — Greeks lived in Abkhazia, Georgians lived in Abkhazia — and Georgians always looked down on Abkhazians, is what I was told as a kid. So it is very sad, but the fact that the Georgian side does not recognize that it was a war is obviously very hurtful for the people of Abkhazia.

Göktuğ

In this context, I want to ask: what is the relationship like between Abkhazians and Georgians today? Is there more hostility, or a desire for peace? What do you think?

Amra

On the governmental level, I know that there is no connection between Georgia and Abkhazia right now — we are very friendly with Russia, and there is no connection with Georgia. I have never actually met a Georgian person, so I have never talked about it with one. But from what I remember, there is a feeling of hostility, based purely on the fact that they never recognized that so many people were killed by them. So I would say, yes, there is a feeling of hostility.

Göktuğ

Thank you. And I also want to ask: as you know, Russia recognized Abkhazia in 2008. How do people in Abkhazia see Russia today? Do you see it as a form of strategic support, dependence, or something else?

Amra

There is a very strong economic dependency. Abkhazia has been developing very quickly in the past four years, I would say, and that obviously comes from the great support of Russia. Even recently — I think a couple of months ago we had our presidential elections, and ever since the new president was elected, it feels like the Russian support has doubled. You can see that especially in the town where I live, the capital, Sukhum. Abkhazia has always been very popular among tourists, but these past four years it has been developing rapidly, and there has been a great increase in the number of tourists and the amount of money coming in, because it is a touristic place — our main income comes from the summer period, even early fall. So yes, there is great support for the Russians in Abkhazia as well. Mostly for the Russians, obviously — not for the Georgians.

Hasan

Okay, thank you. How does Abkhazia’s lack of international recognition affect your personal life — for example, when you are travelling abroad? Have you ever encountered any backlash about it?

Amra

Well, we have an Abkhazian passport and we have Russian passports. Obviously, when I am travelling abroad, I use my Russian passport. I have never experienced personal hostility here in Türkiye — on the contrary, I have always been very welcomed when I say where I am from. But I had an acquaintance in my university years who was a bit older than me, and she herself had a Georgian friend. When she learned that I was from Abkhazia, she started asking me questions about the war and about what is going on right now. And at the end of it all, she said to me, “Now I know both sides of the story” — meaning that the narrative given by her Georgian friend was very different from mine. So it really depends on who you ask about the Abkhazian–Georgian conflict specifically.

Hasan

Do you see a recognized Abkhazian state as a possibility in the near future?

Amra

Internationally, there are some countries that have recognized us — I may be wrong, but I think the list is about ten countries. But overall, without Georgia first acknowledging the fact of the war… We have a border with them, but they see that border as an administrative border — they do not see us as a separate state. So it really depends on the dialogue that I think could potentially happen in the future between Abkhazians and Georgians.

(Editor’s note: currently 5 countries openly recognizes Abkhazia)

Hasan

Do Abkhazians feel misunderstood because of this? You say this was an independence war, and we see that in many other places the West accepts such struggles as wars of independence. Do you see a two-faced policy here?

Amra

Well, it is definitely a two-faced policy, and I think Russia supporting Abkhazia is such a big factor when it comes to the potential of Abkhazia being recognized internationally. I think it would really depend on the global political narrative and how that unfolds — because I know that at the beginning of the Russian–Ukrainian war, the Ukrainian President Zelensky called for a second front, encouraging Georgia to start a war with Abkhazia and Russia, and Georgia did not do it. So it also depends on the government of Georgia, I would say.

Göktuğ

Thank you. You briefly mentioned this, but I want to ask specifically: what are some of the biggest challenges young people face in Abkhazia? Do most young people want to stay in Abkhazia, or do they dream of going abroad?

Amra

Well, I definitely know a portion of people who have gone to study in Moscow, and some who came to study in Türkiye, but generally the majority of those people come back to Abkhazia. I feel like people of my major especially — International Relations — my peers are encouraged to pursue the thought of recognition and to really work for the development of our country in all spheres: economically, politically, and internationally as well. For example, our Abkhazian State University — I think it was a year or two ago — sent a group of students of International Relations to the United Kingdom. I unfortunately do not remember the name of the university, but I am pretty sure it was in London. They really worked on presenting and representing our country; they met with some of the professors there, and those professors wrote back their feedback. So I think the majority of the students really want to come back and work on the progress.

Hasan

What do you know about the Abkhazian diaspora here in Turkey? Do you see a big diaspora here, or in other countries?

Amra

I know that there is a big diaspora. I know there is one in Ankara specifically — it is more of a place where Abkhazians meet, but from what I know, those Abkhazians are Abkhazian by ethnicity while actually being Turkish, so I have had very little opportunity to go there, really ask, and be around those people. There is a huge diaspora of younger people, of my peers, in Sakarya and in Eskişehir — those are the most famous. Even when I was back home and about to go to university, we always knew that you could find good support in Eskişehir. We also have representatives of the diaspora in Sukhum, in Abkhazia — they have their own building, and some of the people there help students get into university. That was actually one of the routes I took when I was about to come here: I got into Anadolu University, but then, when I received my scholarship, I chose to go to Ankara instead. I am not sure how the diaspora works in other countries — I know there is a list of representatives of Abkhazia in most European countries, but I am unfortunately not aware of how that works.

Göktuğ

Thank you. In this context: you are now studying in Türkiye. What made you choose to come here, and how has studying abroad changed your perspective?

Amra

Well, it was mainly my parents’ idea for me to come here — that is why I started learning Turkish very young, when I was eight years old. My dad has always been drawn to Türkiye. He has nothing to do with Türkiye whatsoever, but he has always been interested, and we came here for vacations a couple of times when I was a child. He was the main person who encouraged it — and I was up for anything, really. When I was choosing a university I was 18 years old; I did not really know what I wanted or where I actually wanted to go, so I just went with the flow. And how has it changed my perspective? I would say that for the most part I am a very different person right now — I am obviously not 18 anymore. And I get to see both perspectives, even on the Abkhazian issue: I think I have heard a couple of our professors mention it, and that really gives me a good perspective on how Abkhazia is seen from the outside.

Göktuğ

Thank you. And more specifically — you are an International Relations student. Has studying IR changed how you think about your own region?

Amra

I mean, yes — but I have always been aware that the Caucasus region in itself is a very problematic issue in the global arena. Has it made me more aware of the way Abkhazia is discussed in the international arena? Yes. But I have also always known that Abkhazia is not internationally recognized. It has made me more aware of the narrative that is going on — but that is about it. There was no major revelation of “oh my God, that is how people see my country.” I have always known that is the way it was.

Hasan

Okay. So what do you think about the future? What should be the next step for Abkhazia?

Amra

Well, I think right now, with the way things are going and the major support of Russia, as long as there is peace between Abkhazia and Georgia, I would say we are doing fine — we are doing great. Again, with students being sent to the UK by the Abkhazian State University, and with the diaspora that is of great help here in Türkiye, I would say that if we continue at the pace we have right now, more states could potentially recognize Abkhazia in the future. I do not think it is going to happen in the next ten years — but overall, maybe the number of states that recognize us will grow.

Hasan

I have a few quick questions before we finish. You talked about the Russia–Ukraine war, and you said Zelensky tried to get Georgia into the war. But in general, does the public in Abkhazia support the Russian war, because of the close relations?

Amra

Oh, no — I think the majority of my peers back in Abkhazia, we do not support it. However, do we actively say that we oppose it? No — because we do recognize, obviously, the huge help that Russia has given us over these past years; at this point it is coming closer to twenty years. But do I think that everything that is happening is horrible, that people are dying — and at one point it was my people who were dying, in the Georgian–Abkhazian war? It is horrible. The fact that we may not actively talk about it out loud, though, I think also comes from a very understanding place, you know?

Hasan

Yeah. Also, what do you think about the South Ossetia region? Because it is maybe a somewhat similar story.

Amra

Well, I would not say I know a lot about the issue. I do know that it is very similar to what we have experienced — and, if I am not mistaken, we do recognize each other. But I do not think there is much I can say about it. The stories are very similar and the struggle is similar, but how this issue is going to end for South Ossetia, I do not know.

Hasan

Okay, thank you. Finally, do you want to add anything? We tried to research as much as we could, but there is very limited knowledge about the region, and the region is very complex. Is there any point you would like to highlight, or anything you would like to say to our readers?

Amra

Well, let me think… You have Atatürk here in Türkiye; we have our first president. His name was Vladislav Ardzinba. After the war ended in 1993, he became the first president, and the way you look up to Atatürk is very similar to the way we look up to our first president, Ardzinba. You can find his photo in every classroom in high school — it is everywhere. Overall, we are a very welcoming nation. We always wait for the tourist season to come, when a lot of people arrive from different parts of the world. Sometimes I am surprised myself when I see the people who travel there — there are a number of UN branches, and in one of those branches I personally had my internship. I was always surprised at the number of foreigners — and I am not talking about Russians, Ukrainians, or Belarusians I mean people from all around the world that is always suprising. I think that is it.

Göktuğ

Thank you so much.

Hasan

Thank you for your responses, that’s all for today’s interview.